Pinterest is becoming a very interesting platform for photographers. I’ll definitely embrace it.

Hi Trey….totally agree with you, and you would know…most of us dream of the kind of traffic you get!! When you upload your photos to your blog, google+ or where ever, do you run into any space issues? Do you upload a jpg version of your photo or a full-sized TIF or RAW image? Some of my images could end up being over a gigabyte….wouldn’t make sense to upload those large files would it?

I’m often defending the whole watermark saga since deciding to stop using them mid last year. It’s amazing to see how many people honestly believe it will stop any sort of copyright infringement. Anyway i’m loving pinterest at the moment 
http://pinterest.com/tristanjud/

I found it hard to let go of watermarks until I realized this: unless the marks are so invasive as to completely undermine the photo, they can be easily removed by any semi-competent Photoshop user, and anyone willing to steal the photo and make money from it will not be stopped by a few incongruous pixels that can be cropped or cloned out. The only solid reason I can think of to ID photos is when you place a photo in a position without any link back to your profile or website, and you want to give people some way of finding you if they fall in love with it. I don’t know if we’re at the point yet where Google can trace an image back to its original location, but it’s unlikely that the average user will know how.

Your arguments make sense, so I took the plunge and have stopped watermarking my pics except in some specific situations. And I’m going to give Pinterest a whirl as soon as they send me an invite…

“amuse-bouche” …indeed!  
I thought Google + was a turning point but pinterest is the larger turning point.  Full speed ahead into the future.

http://pinterest.com/donjschulte/

How very enlightened. Its refreshing.

I have also decided to embrace Pinterest – for me personally I love being able to assemble images easily that I admire and am inspired by, and the traffic to my own work is a significant source to my blog.  The main downside comes when people pin images from sites that do not give credit (I’ve found such is often the case on Tumblr and We Heart It) rather than pinning the photographer’s original site – then the photographer doesn’t get any credit and the image is just another homeless photo lost on the interwebs.  So I think it’s very important when people pin and repin images, to do so responsibly and make sure the pin comes from an original source in order to credit the photographer.

just because youre one exception and this kind of sharing works for your doesnt makes you a priest or a messiah. you have no right to tell the “whole stupid world” how things should be done. this is a very arrogant behavior and i can see this more and more with you. think of yourself as extremely lucky, you have created a niche for yourself, you got the money rolling and you let us know every single day, how fast the money is rolling for you. i mean, showing off your house and asking if anyone wants to buy it? seriously? just shift down a gear and be happy, but dont mock us with your pseudo-wise jabbering.

Pinterest is a fun place to hangout and share valuable information. Here is my Pinterest address if anyone wants to connect.  http://pinterest.com/ekine/

I would love an invite so I can see what all the fuss is about.. any takes? chriscombe@gmail.com (my email) 

Trey, you inhabit a categorically different world than most of the rest of us.  I, like you, intensely dislike watermarks and borders…signatures and the like.  They take away from the image…they pull me out of the experience.  I don’t use them. 

The rapid acceleration of social sharing, the internet, the sheer rate at which things pass through us these days is mind boggling and through all this noise I wonder constantly if what I am doing is worthy.  Most of the time I wish someone would steal my work…at least it would indicate some minor degree of attention.  That’s what I mean by your categorically different world.  Always know how blessed you are to have an audience.

What I know if that HDR speaks to me in a way that is unlike any photography I have done in the past.  It transcends simple representation of a scene and approaches more how I remember a place…how that place feels.

What I have found is an “if you build it…they will come” strategy doesn’t work.  No one will come.  At this point, I don’t even know what I am doing wrong and what I am doing right. 

For now, I continue to do the only thing I can.  I keep producing work.  I try my best to get better.  I hope someone will enjoy what I do and share it with others. 

Invite coming your way Chris! 

You make a really good point about trying to link your pins to the source so that the author/photographer gets the credit they deserve.

Pinterest is pretty addicting.

Trey, I have been following your philosophy about photo sharing and I am inspired. I believe that our ability to survive as a species is based on our ability to cooperate and share at a high level with each other. Fear is it’s own reward. I really appreciate the fact that you have taken this theme and continue to expand and develop it before your audience. A new paradigm is in the works. May we all come to participate and embrace new more powerful and gentle modalities of being in the world, and inside our own skin.

Truth in this matter is in the eye of the man throwing rocks. If you have nothing nice to say, don’t say anything. Your post is for your own glory, no one really wants to heard some one talk down about someone they admire. Take some time and look inside yourself and think of why you found it necessary to try a belittle someone you have never met and on his blog which most people look up to or appreciate his work. I must ask, if youou dislike Trey’s philosphy why are you here? Why are you reading? Mostly why post? 

I agree completely. I follow your boards and I have seen where people that follow mine have been drawn to your photos also. I, too, put my photos out on Pinterest and I love having people pin them and share them. I am just beginning my photography career, so to me, the more interest in my photos the better!

http://pinterest.com/donnaleelong/

Really appreciate your views on this Trey – been a big topic of discussion lately.
On pinterest – but need to get busy:
http://www.pinterest.com/charlieobrien
 

I love pinterest!!!! I wrote a whole blog on why it would be a great platform for photographers I totally agree with you Trey!

Alright Trey, you convinced me. I took the Pinterest plunge today. http://pinterest.com/dpasillas/

Three topics, actually. Two really related, third – not so much. To summarize:
-Artists sharing. Home run! Great credit to Trey as one of the rare modern artists who realize that with making art comes sharing art and tries to promote and teach that. In historical times that was almost ingrained in art community. Since Disney, this crucial part of art have been terribly eroded in exchange for the Almighty Copyright.
-Easy and full access to art online as a driver of artist income, again home run. People who do not understand that (and avoid any site, including Pinterest for infringement fear) definitely do not understand modern economy. Also, they do not understand the first topic and sharing as a part of living art community.
-Pinterest itself. Unrelated to two issues above. Yes, it is one way through which artist can share and promote. However, it is just ONE way to do it. More appropriate advice would be: go check Pinterest. See if your intended community and/or existing community meshes with it. See if you feel good there. Than decide. Just because it is good to share and expose work on the Internet doesn’t mean that it is most efficient and desirable for everyone to do it everywhere. That part is important too.
Related to the last is the scientific, not artistic mistake (hence greatly forgiven): “..15% of this traffic came from Pinterest. Amazing! If Pinterest didn’t exist (a reality some photographers would prefer), then our traffic would be 15% less. …”
Sorry, but unprovable after the fact. Maybe in some future you’d be able to analyze traffic in more detail and find out if those are people who knew you from Twitter, G+,… and would have arrived anyway just this time coming from Pinterest or genuine “new people” harvested at the Pinterest. 

Again I hear about how awesome Pinterest is – I’ve seen some traffic from it – but not nearly enough to consider it a worthy time investment for my page. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing, I’d love for people to Pin Phogropathy’s photographs, but I can’t justify putting the time and effort into another social network at this point in time. 

I’m glad to hear that SiC is growing though! Nice work Trey!

The very nature
and timing of this article is great linkbait. I’m sure its intention was well
served. I think your comments that cast all photographers that don’t let their
work be used freely without regard for copyright are wrong are off base.
Everyone has different goals for how to use their work and to make a living. In
your case using 500k followers on G+ and other avenues to market photographer
tutorials, reviews as a revenue stream. For SIC it makes sense to market in this
matter. For other photographers it may not be.

We use our
photography to market travel and rely on people coming to our website to get
travel information. If there was no branding on the images we certainly can’t
expect people to place links to our website. I’ve found many of our images on
pinterest without proper attribution but your fighting a losing battle if your
work is on the internet so you need to figure out ways to capitalize on it.

Here’s one
example OT but still relevant. By freely sharing your work without copyright
how is one to find who owes the image so they can properly license it? most
businesses using your images do not give you proper attribution.

newconstructionmanhattan.com/nyc-apartments-by-landmark/times-square
this seo crafted site uses your image “ranks high in google” and get
Google traffic to monetize on their site.

I’m not saying your approach is wrong but we all have different goals and most photographers can’t expect to 
monetize their work how you have done. Keep up the great site and debate.

Dan

Great article Trey!  I personally love Pinterest and feel it’s a great way for all to share.    Though I’ve also been involved in conversation with those who get bent out of shape when they see Photographers posting their own work.  “They shout, “that’s not what Pinterest is for!”   My response is, I’m thankful some photographers choose to upload their work, I wouldn’t have been able to Pin It otherwise.  Many portrait photogs build their Website or Blog in Flash or other form where we are unable to Pin directly from their site/s.   Pinterest  is addicting though so I time myself…  pinterest.com/bearfootliving

Invite sent. Have fun.

I would probably class myself  ‘old school’ because I’m a believer in not fixing something if it doesn’t need fixed and although I may not like it I have to accept that technology dictates our world now and is evolving at a very fast pace – i’m fine with that. But what upsets me and makes me a bit grumpy is being told one day that the way i work and the equipment or methods I use are no good/use anymore. I used to feel inspired and encouraged coming on here to comment every day – but haven’t been feeling that very much lately. Sorry for being the negative one here folks but just thought i’d say…..

oh great: fgimpel @ gmx.de (without the blanks, of course)

thanks a lot!

Very well said, a good argument against. I would also like to add that by giving access to full res images, how would you stop or monitor people downloading and printing your images and putting them on their wall, or even selling them on?

How ironic that I came across your post regarding Pinterest, right after reading this post by a fellow home and craft blogger: 
http://www.livinglocurto.com/2012/02/letter-bloggers-pinterest/ .
I was glad to see your take on this issue, as I found the latter to be a bit overboard on the side of  ”protection”.I think I can see both sides of the issue, but I lean more towards your view Trey. I strongly agree with giving credit where credit is due, but I think you are right on when you talk about a new way of communication and the job of digital artists to “inspire and share”.The world is changing so much and like it or not, we have to get on board or get left behind.I absolutely do not believe in anyone “stealing” another artists work and using or selling it as their own, but the creative commons, Non-commercial license that you talk about, I believe is a wonderful way to “share” creations without necessarily losing potential profit from them.I will admit that I am not as creative as most of the crafters, artists and photographers that I follow, but I am so inspired by them and have had my own creativity re-awakened because of them!That is why I started a blog of my own, so that I could share with friends and family and hopefully other crafters my love and passion for these things.I am a SAHW & Grandma, who doesn’t get much “social” inter-action, so for me this is a way to communicate with others, who share my passion and it gives me a sense of community and friendship.I have made and showcased several crafts or ideas that I have found on Pinterest on my blog (lisastuf.blogspot.com), but I am always careful to give the credit to the original creator and never claim projects or photographs as my own if they are not.I really love Pinterest and have found it not only motivates me to “create”, but has led me to many purchases from items I have “pinned”, so I do agree that it can be an awesome tool for driving traffic to your website and possibly a sale.
When I blog, I try to “promote” whatever site or product that I have used in my project by including links to these various sites.
Thank-you for sharing your beautiful works of art, your knowledge and your time here. I am so happy I found you!

I love pinterest, primarily because it’s so visual. Thanks to these replies I’ve found a bunch of photographers to “follow.” I love it that more men are embracing the concept. 

 I kind of agree, but maybe not as  passionately.  The site, over the last couple of years, seem to have really gone “commercial”.  I think it’s great that he can make a living out of the site, and realize that are the things you have to do order to do so. But it used to be in the earlier years, you could come here and look at his beautiful images without being bombarded to subscribe to or buy  something in the beginning of almost every post.

Again, not criticizing, I just like the earlier days.

Forgot to post mine - 
http://pinterest.com/jeremycupp/

Great post Trey. Sure got me thinking. If anyone can spare a Pinterest invite, please send to gozobond at gmail dot com. Many thanks.

Thanks for the interesting discussion everyone

I agree

Done.

Sure well OF COURSE people will do stuff like steal it and print it out…  but, it’s a pretty low number.  Most people are good people and they will gladly order a print or support the artist if it is easy.

Hey Trey, I’m trying to post a comment. Tried three times and it never appears on this board. Does DISQUS blocking it or something?

Cool I would love to check out this pinterest thing as well if anyone has spare invites. 

Personally, I liked you better when you were “stuck in customs” on Flickr and I discovered your work… Eventually I found out your name and considered you one of my favorites modern artists, in the past few years, since you jumped on the social network scene your ego has inflated 100 times over.. perhaps because now there was a voice to those photographs. 

  You were the first ever flickr contact I added, according to Flickr, and lengthy 58 months ago. After following you on Facebook, and then G+, and pintrest you became exceedingly undesirable.  I stopped following you on Pintrest as soon as I realized you were only using it to market YOU.  Pulling stunts like that is what RUINS great ideas like Pinterest. That admiration I once had for you melted away.  Comparatively to you being an athlete turned wife beater….  You’re  no longer just a cool photographer with an amazing understanding of the HDR technique, you’re a machine.

I started to actually look at your pictures (most recently) and  considered your attitude and realized they really aren’t that great. If you take away the fancy photoshop, and photomatix, you have nothing but a silly old snapshot that anyone with at least one finger could produce with enough money to travel, and a team to control the “business”. 

It’s great that you like to share your work, but to flaunt your “team” and use the word “sue” so much, really takes away from the decent person I thought you were. Now, I realize you found a niche and you will bleed that niche dry until it’s stone cold like every other corporation on the face of the earth. You are no different, you’re ideas aren’t ‘fresh”… they’re played out.  Hats off to you..  That the stay-at-home soccer moms and “dumbed down” citizens follow your flashy colors like drones. You shouldn’t encourage anyone to give their time and creations away because they , most likely, have not been as Lucky as you.  You’re just one mean old corporation that wriggles it’s self into the fabric of our lives and ruins all that we consider “holy.”  It’s about progression right? All you are doing is using someone else’s hardwork for FREE to booster your own personal gain — and you are encouraging everyone else to do the same, disgusting. 

I like Pinterest in principle but after an initial foray into creating a board my initial thoughts are as follows. I like the picture browsing capability. I am a pretty picture junkie. With a Chrome extension to hover and zoom it makes picture appreciation a breeze. But, loading images one at a time (have I missed something) is too tedious first, and second; do I really want to duplicate my G+ efforts (I’m not in it for the money). I must say it made consuming your pictures a joy Trey…surely you did not load them one at a time.

You can use the word “fear” to try and tilt readers into taking your point of view (“Oh, those silly dinosaurs – they fear the unknown, ha ha ha”).  However, you’ve missed addressing several things.  A: the fact that Pinterest specifically asks you not to self promote, yet you have multiple pinboards of your own works (which if you followed, you may not see so much traffic) … B: Pinterest is using your work for commercial gain – it uses your work, and other infringed works to build its social network, which in turn brings in more revenue from things like the skimlinks that users click upon.  And C: Your view isn’t necessarily the right one.  It is still, afaik, the work’s creator who has the right to decide when and where their copyrighted art may be used.  Many don’t want to participate in Pinterest’s thefts, yet you want to drag them along, and discard their concerns or desires as “fear”.

Ok, I’m biting.

First off I found it humorous that you talk about open sharing but just the other day I saw a post where you were handing out a verbal lashing to someone who didn’t link your work in the way that you saw fit. It was funny how arrogant  it sounded actually…like how dare you put my link way at the bottom of your post instead of under the image like I demand that you do.

That being said, I DO want to respond to this post that I honestly find ridiculous and damaging to photographers out there who don’t know any better. Sure, if your product base is made up of eBooks and Tutorials than it is a great idea to generate as much traffic as possible to your site and it doesn’t matter if you give hi res copies of your images away for free. If you were trying to generate a large portion of your revenue from print sales and licensing then this idea would be nothing short of suicide. Websites like Pinterest, Reddit, Tumblr and the like do not care about you or your work. The people sharing your images do not care about you or your work. If the “linking” is any more difficult than right clicking on the image, 75% of the people on those sites aren’t going to do it. In fact, they will right click, save as and they post your images without a link or even worse, as if they were theirs.

I am confident that it must be difficult to remain humble with so many followers but if you honestly cared about the photographers you hope to inspire (if you do care about anyone besides yourself) then maybe you would consider sharing both sides to the story, explaining some of the benefits and pitfalls of each path one could take. There are thousands of overly eager “new” photographers out there who look up to you simply because you have a million followers on G+. Insulting one group of photographers, while potentially leading another group of photographers astray speaks volumes about your humility.

Tell them the truth Trey. Tell them you became this popular by being one of the first photographers to ride the HDR wave and by being very good at marketing. Don’t tell them that if they start today and share all their images freely that they can make it because you know as well as I do it will never happen.

Hey Aaron - 

Why are you here?  Actually, a better question is what brought you here?
Trey has a methos to his madness.  It works.  You’re here.
I do agree that the first guy into the market has the first shot at defining the market, and Trey nailed HDR to the wall with his name all over it.  He is the unquestioned  Godfather of HDR.  So yeah, he has a certain cashe that you and I and 7 billion other screaming jerks don’t have.

That said, what sort of advice is he suppose to hand out?  Advice on how he didn’t do it?
I may be Trey’s original fan.  I started following him before SIC went Double Platinum.  I say this only to point out that how he talks (The advice he gives and the manor in which is gives it) hasn’t changed.  Trey has a unique view on life and business that is very counter intuitive and organic. And the dude 100% believes everything he says.  And so far he aint losing.

I have yet to find anyone in his position that gives back to the extent that Trey does.  From photowalks to free tutorials to constant advice on how he thinks about the business of photography – Trey gives back to the community as much as anyone ever has.

I have been following Trey, learning from him and taking advice from him and my photography business is growing.  Today I sold a large piece to a Law Firm her in Austin that contacted me after they put up a post asking if anyone knew who the artist was that had their work hanging in a local establishment recently.  Someone saw it, and told them it was me.  I have no idea who that person was that pass along my name, but they didn’t make a dollar and never thought they would.  They were just being helpful.  You throw your bread upon the waters and you might be surprised at what you get back.

You can disagree with what he says, but to question his humility and out right say that he is harming photographers shows a lack of depth of understanding on what Trey is all about.

“If you have nothing nice to say, don’t say anything.” So if I not worship him like a messiah of photography, I am not allowed to articulate my thoughts? Is this north-corea of Photography or what? But youre kind of right. Some of my comments have been deleted without any warning by the stuckincustoms staff, and they have never included rude stupid hate, always constructive criticism and true feelings. I wrote emails why they do that, and i NEVER got an answer.
i am not a hater, I used to love treys pictures, his style, his art. But the focus of this blog sadly evolves from the photography to the marketing things. So the quality of his art gets worse and worse, sometimes I think he just spent 10 minutes creating a picture in a hurry, just to upload one.

At first I was a bit hesitant, another site to suck away my sparse time. But I caved in: http://pinterest.com/pahles/

“Why are you here?  Actually, a better question is, what brought you here? Trey has a method to his madness.  It works.  You’re here.”

Actually, a related Google search brought me here.  I’ve never heard of this blog owner before.

“Trey talks a lot about “good people”. He trusts that good people will
try to do the right thing if they can. And people who intend to steal
your stuff will do that as well. But those people were never going to
pay you for what they intend to steal anyway. So that’s not lost
business. It’s business you were never going to get.”

That’s false, actually.  The ease of use of iTunes has wrought many a dollar away from me that those artists weren’t going to get.  I may have the slight inclination to hear a certain song or album, but I’m not willing to take the time (or I’m away from home) to dig in the basement to find the cd, nor drive to the store to buy another.  However, I am willing to spend $1 for the convenience.  That’s money I really wasn’t going to spend, but because it’s so darn easy, I’ll spend it to satisfy my slight need for the music.  If it wasn’t there, I wouldn’t care that much, but it was, so I used it.  Anyways, your quote above doesn’t justify the fact that the majority of Pinterest users are stealing content from creators.

http://greekgeek.hubpages.com/hub/Is-Pinterest-a-Haven-for-Copyright-Violations  This article is against Pinterest. And it links to you as the opposing view…Now I have found your wonderful photography! And wise words. This was my response on that website:

I support Trey Ratcliff’s position on this subject. It’s time to think differently about the web and sharing and the opportunities it brings. If you are going to make yourself crazy over it, maybe it’s best not to post full sized photos on the web. I know there are copyright laws, and I do my best to respect them, but I ALWAYS assume if I post something it is in danger of being violated on the web. There are laws against purse snatching, but if I leave my bag out in the open in a crowded shopping center, it’s going to get taken. I know there are issues with the fine print on Pinterest, but there are issues with the fine print on most of the social media websites, and they are a part of every day life. Think of the out cry against youtube and tumblr and even facebook…these things have been appropriately sorting themselves out in fair and reasonable ways as the web evolves. I suspect Pinterest will do the same.
I have found amazing blogs and artists and bought off of Etsy and now follow all kinds of websites on the internet because of what I have seen on Pinterest. Most people I know who use Pinterest have done the same thing. I have more traffic to my blog because of Pinterest. I think the gallery owners, record companies, publishers, and movie makers have more to be afraid of than the individual artists…social media is the door to new opportunities for people who would have not had a chance to make it otherwise. I am not going to be afraid of the new way of doing things in this modern world!

 Actually Gino, I am only here because someone asked me my opinion about this post. After I read it, I felt inclined to share.

Photo walks = exposure. Talks = exposure. This post = exposure. Not because he cares about you. Talk to me 2 years from now and let me know if your business is still growing after following the Sheppard here.

Yes – you have to pick your partners on the web… I go with companies like Google, Pinterest, etc etc — the very nature of the web is sharing and traffic-flow…  so, I embrace it all.

Aaron – you don’t have to go the way I did.  You can try NOT sharing your images online if you think that is a better strategy.

Just like with all my editing techniques, I also talk about my sharing techniques.  I’m not a dictator — I’m just sharing how I do things because others tend to find it useful.

I put up boards with my own work and others, yes.  But the reason I use my own work is to get-out-ahead of other people that may link my images to 3rd-party sites.  So, it’s not against the “spirit” of Pinterest.  What they don’t want, for example, is Ford making a Pinterest page that links only to their own cars.

Not sure why people get so upset over copyrights etc.  I’m no photographer but it’s a hobby of mine and I try to put whatever work I can online to get exposure more.  If someone abuses it, welcome to the internet… stuff is stolen and abused daily. 

If I want to get my name out there, I would be putting my material on every social media network out there.  G+, Facebook, Twitter and now Pinterest.  

Let the opinion of others spread your ability to do art.  To my knowledge, the majority of these websites compress the hell out of these images and the people that truly appreciate it and want to purchase, end up finding out the authors website to do so.   To me, the web for photographers should be embraced (although I understand it can be frustrating to see people abuse your work)… 

I’d like to know the statistics on how often someone abuses your photos versus the vast amount of people who view them in awe.  Something tells me the later number out weights the abusing ones.  

Once upon a time, I watermarked all my photos, made double sure that my copyright info was embedded into the image, and I even made sure to disable right click. I was constantly worried about who was going to steal my work. One night it hit me. I’m a huge support of open source code (I’m a web guy) and I thought, why not my photos? Creative Commons is where it’s at IMHO. 

I now release most of my images under a Creative Commons. Take it, use it, please just don’t change it or use it to make money. That’s all I ask of people. Since then my stress level has gone down, my traffic has gone up, and I get many more compliments on my photos. I make sure to provide a full size image download link so that people can enjoy what I love so much.

For the record, I signed up for pinterest due to Trey’s post. My girlfriend has been on for awhile but I always just thought it to be a craft/recipe site. I now see it is and can be much much more. 

http://pinterest.com/adammayfield/ 

After joining (http://pinterest.com/qtluong/) I am not sure how being on Pinterest help you being seen. I’ve noticed that before I joined, there were already hundreds of my images that were pined by others, so how will my presence add anything, esp. since according to their etiquette you’re supposed to be light on self-promotion (and therefore not pin hundreds of your images) ? Case in point, after noticing I got an enormous amount of traffic from Stubleupon, I joined the site as I was curious to see what caused it, but I couldn’t even figure it out

“I stopped following you on Pintrest as soon as I realized you were only using it to market YOU.  Pulling stunts like that is what RUINS great ideas like Pinterest.” 

Trey this is where I would have to agree. I think I’ve seen you say something like you’re going to share 50% your own work and 50% others. Looking at your profile on Pinterest it’s all you. 

I posted on my blog today about this and your influence is what makes your activity there so dangerous.  I don’t seriously care if you want to upload 1000 images overnight there but think about those early people that did opt to follow you. 

Feel free to read my post: http://www.nuwomb.com/photographers-please-avoid-self-promotion-on-pinterest/
It was in the making but recent activity made me get it out today.I don’t care much about the copyright shit but I do care about how photographers intend on using pinterst.  It’s not about self-promotion.

Hey Traci,

It’s not that it’s terrible to upload or pin some of your own work. Pin some of your own work from time to time but what’s happening is photographers are crazy and want everyone to see everything they’ve ever done. Pinterest is an interest graph and if you continually pin all o fyour own work is masturbating.  Put up your 9 best images – become forced to edit your photography work.  
Do photographers need to upload their own work on this curation site just because they can? There must be some underlying fear that no one will pin their work  if they dont.

 Congratulations.

How much of that traffic is turning into palpable business?

 Of course it doesn’t make sense. You don’t understand copyright and its importance.

 You’re making this a black and white issue. Either you’re putting it online, or you aren’t. The difference between what you do and every other photographer does is you think 15% increases in web traffic equate to more business. But they don’t. MAYBE you get a couple sales from them, but how do you know those people actually came here because you give away you’re work.

It’s not as black and white as you’re making it.

I do make my living from this; we have about ten employees, part time and full time.  We license thousands of images all over the world.

Pinterest already uses images in a commercial manner. It’s got affiliate links generating income for the site. Pictures shared by users are the bait to help it make money through those links. As a commercial model, it’s an improvement over annoying banner ads and popups, but it’s naive to pretend Pinterest isn’t commercial at all.

Moreover, that’s only what it’s like now, at the start. Its Terms of Use say that when you pin content, you are granting Cold Brew Labs a perpetual royalty-free license to “exploit” and even “sell” that content. That’s a lot of trust to give a website, when you don’t know how it’s going to grow and change. Not everyone is willing to make that leap of trust.

More importantly, thousands of Pinterest users are already using the embed codes provided by Pinterest to embed images found on Pinterest to drive traffic to their money-earning blogs and websites. So pinned photos are being used in all sorts of commercial ways. 

For you, that may not be a problem, and I laud image-makers who are willing to take the plunge and the risk and share their work. The web will be the richer for it.However, I am not comfortable with making that decision for OTHER artists and photographers, without knowing their situation.  I do not have the right to grant Pinterest and its users a perpetual, royalty-free license to exploit and make money on someone else’s work. The content owner should make that choice, not me!

Unfortunately, Pinterest removes that choice from the copyright holder and puts it in the hands of thousands of members who (a) don’t understand copyright, (b) frequently misattribute and link images to the wrong person, and (c) think nothing of embedding those photos on their money-earning sites. As far as they’re concerned, it’s pinned, so it’s available. For some artists and photographers, these issues are not a problem, and Pinterest is an ideal platform.  An Etsy shopowner may not find any great value in a picture of their product except as a way to promote it and get people to buy it. Whereas for a stock photographer making money by licensing high-quality photos for people to use on their websites, it could be detrimental to have everyone pinning and embedding those photos on websites for free. 

I wish that Pinterest enforced its terms of use and made them a philosophy, instead of just a way to cover their butts in a legal dispute (if anyone sues, they can point to their terms of use and push liability onto members). I would like to see it as a place where people DO proudly share their own work and let it out into the world, so that the people doing the pinning have chosen to say, “Here, use, take, share!”  (A little like Creative Commons, something I support very strongly.) Unfortunately, Pinterest is a strange contradiction: its terms of use say you cannot pin content you don’t own or don’t have a license to share, yet its members are discouraged from sharing their own work. If one followed both policies, the site would cease to exist.

You know, I’m seeing a handful of people commenting on how Trey is “self promoting” on Pinterest and it being against the etiquette. But I know for a fact after having followed him since he first posted about pinterest the other day that he does in fact post many things other than his own work. 

What I want to know, is how is Trey posting one of his photos each day (after an initial upload of a bunch of his own, but that’s just building initial content) any different than say a chef or a blogger posting their own recipes or DIY projects that all link back to their own blogs? Seems like the same exact thing to me. These other people also post other things as well, but a majority of their content does in fact link back to their own blog, just like Trey’s so what’s the difference? Are all of these people shameless self promoters as well?

I for one love that Trey has joined Pinterest, if not for getting more exposure to his photographs then because I seem to have very similar interests and like seeing what other cool things he’s posting as well (for example an awesome multi-level apartment style fish tank he posted yesterday).

I also re-pin many of his photos (which I pinned even before he joined) and it makes me excited to see many of my other friends re-pinning them and getting exposure to Trey that they hadn’t had before because not all of them use G+.

From its Terms of Use: “By making available any Member Content through the Site, Application or Services, you hereby grant to Cold Brew Labs a worldwide, irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, royalty-free license, with the right to sublicense, to use, copy, adapt, modify, distribute, license, sell, transfer, publicly display, publicly perform, transmit, stream, broadcast, access, view, and otherwise exploit such Member Content only on, through or by means of the Site, Application or Services.”

Technically, one is not ceding all copyright to Pinterest when one pins a photo. One is simply giving Pinterest the right to exploit that photo commercially (or in any other way). Also, Pinterest provides an “embed” button so that OTHER people can exploit said photos by embedding them on their own websites. It’s not quite as clear whether Pinterest’s Terms of Use imply that one is granting permission for third parties to embed pinned photos, but that may fall under the “through or by means of the…Application or Services” clause.

Thanks

I am certainly not suggesting that anyone hide their work. No one would ever see it if that was the case. I am merely suggesting that watermarking your images and protecting your copyright is in a photographers best interest. I had a look at Pinterest after I read this article and many of my images are already there which of course I am thrilled about (lol) and most of them were linked from flickr. Underneath the image, instead of saying linked from Aaron Reed it says just that, linked from flickr. How is that supposed to help me? Yes, if you follow the link you will make it to my flickr page but with this site specifically I sincerely doubt that any business would come from it. I am curious why a company would want to license an image that everyone else can have for free. No company that was going to use one of your images in an ad campaign or in association with their product would want that same image in 1000 other social sites across the internet. That is why many businesses choose to license their images through Getty. They want to be assured of some exclusivity. If you are a successful photographer at all, your pictures will end up on some of these sites no matter what you do. We both know this. Why would I want to make it easier for them though? The fact is that I have lost business, including a couple of potentially large licensing fees because the lawyer for the company did an image search as a precursor to making a deal and when they found the image all over the place, they backed out of the deal. Now, all that being said…. I may have come across as a jerk and I’m okay with that. I do appreciate the fact that you do not moderate your responses. That is very rare. I was merely suggesting that the “power” you have with some of your followers might be used differently by posing both sides to the story instead of simply pumping up Pinterest at the expense of less knowledgeable people. Someone told me many years ago that if I priced my images at next to nothing they would always be worth next to nothing.

This is my way to go.  Please visit and pin at: http://pinterest.com/vikpin/

“how is Trey posting one of his photos each day (after an initial upload
of a bunch of his own, but that’s just building initial content)
any different”

“different” is irrelevant.  The site “etiquette” says “no self promotion”.  It doesn’t say “no self promotion, unless you’re some guy named Trey”.  Although, it is understandable, how, if one is ok with any other members doing whatever they like with regard to the rules, the rules don’t apply to them either.

“Not sure why people get so upset over copyrights etc.  I’m no photographer”

Apparently.  Try to respect the wishes of the people who do not want their art taken and used without compensation or permission and yet are verily being forced to when it comes to Pinterest.

“To my knowledge, the majority of these websites compress the hell out of
these images and the people that truly appreciate it and want to
purchase, end up finding out the authors website to do so.”

Afaik, there is no compression.  It is a straight copy.  It would be no different from another blog stealing from your blog and using it for their gain.

 Trey, I’ve been quietly following your work for a while now… While your comments are interesting, I have a problem with the fact that on one hand, you’re saying you offer images free for non-commercial, and sue commercial infringers; but on the other hand you’re posting your images to pinterest when the terms clearly state they can license/sub-license/sell your images thereafter.  You haven’t answered (unless I missed it somewhere) how you feel about these terms?  Are you openly allowing pinterest to use your work commercially, without any compensation?

Only in a vacum does 1 million follows equate to zero sales. Using that logic, 1 million people walking into a brick and mortar would also be worthless. No business would turn away 1 million potential customers.
And you did more than say Trey couldnt help my business. You said his advise was actually harmful. I think you are naive since you seem to think your watermarks and secure site can save you from having your work ganked. But whatever. I hope your business actually is doing as well as you claim. [Who knows]. I run/own 2 companies that keep me busy and I can’t drop a 6 figure income to chase a photography dream right now. That’s not fair to my family and employees. But at an organic pace with almost no real effort put into it I am constantly amazed at how much business I am driving. More than money is at play here though. The minset is freeing. For example, I don’t feel the need to chase other artists around posting on their site about how dangerous their business model is. Just saying.

Sent.

 This may be true, but Christopher has a point. When is the last time anyone paid for a screensaver, or a image to put as the background to their phone. Maybe 1%. And the same would happen to music.

What really is needed is a way to determine whether an image being used has been licensed, whether its in use on a phone or the internet. As someone said, trust but verify…you are trusting, without verifying. And trying to verify without some systematic computer driven way will drive anyone insane, or broke.

Copyright Theft is theft, good old fashioned theft, that is why it is a criminal offence – you may feel you can give your images away, that is your right, but it does NOT give you the right to accuse us that rely on it to pay our mortgage of being ‘Old Fashioned’ or at risk of being ‘Left Behind’ because the way we licence the use of our images is pretty much the same model that most software companies use to sell their software – it is rights managed.

Just because we are now in a Digital Arena, does not mean long trusted business practices need to change wholesale – creative commons is now available and those that place no value on copyright and want to use it, that is their choice, their decision, in the same way those of us that choose not to use it.

If I burgled your house, stole your car, took money from your wallet, I have no doubt you would be on the phone to the police demanding I am arrested – well, stealing my copyright is also theft and theft is theft no matter what is stolen.

People are all too often these days prepared ‘blog away’ to up their search ranking and toss off other peoples methods of working because it doesn’t suit their interests to work in the same way… tough, get over it, as a Photographer with 30yrs experience of travelling the world with my camera and paying the mortgage with it, I see no reason to change!!!!

The way I read this article was that you appeared to be more concerned about how many ‘views’ you have had and how many people are ‘following you.. personally, I would rather have 100 people following me and booking my services than 1M people following me, who 99.9% of the time never read your new blogs etc….!

Because they decide to put ads to your competitors on pinboards featuring your work that you have freely licensed to them?  There’s one reason anyways.

Sorry, you are just interpreting the “spirit” as you feel it benefits you.  It’s not up for interpretation.  It says “Pinterest is designed to curate and share things you love. If there is a
photo or project you’re proud of, pin away! However, try not to use
Pinterest purely as a tool for self-promotion.”  It doesn’t say “Ford, don’t do this…”.

Of course, since they are all for breaking the rules about copyright and ownership, there’s no reason we shouldn’t break the rules they put up as well.

Why does anything Trey says get you this worked up dude.
You say you are secure and doing great but your anger seems to imply that you are worried he is right.

If Trey is right, then he is right and you should have paid attention.
if he is wrong then your world will stay the same happy place it is right now.  Right?

So why all the anger?  You’re harshing my night dude.

How is Pinterest forcing anyone to do anything?
How is Trey’s advice forcing anyone to do anything?

Use it or don’t.
Listen to him or don’t.

You act like people are just Lemmings and Trey is leading them off the edge.
Lemmings will always fall off the edge anyway.  Might as well get it over with.

Everyone else can think for themselves and make choices themselves.

I guess everybody has the own way to market the own work. I believe Trey is doing a great job the way he is doing, he is got 10 people to work for him, so he is creating job positions, which is quite a rare thing nowadays. Because of that all the respect mate!! That is the financial view of course. This is the Trey way, it may work for somebody else as well, it may not. It’s definitely a new way and only in 5-10 years we can say what is right. 
Trey photos are just amazing. What I love a hell of a lot is what is able to take out of them, even when subjects or composition are pretty common. You have seen so many time Ankor Wat (Cambodia) for example, the same composition of Trey, but the post processing, which is the arty side of the photo, it just pulls the photo out from the average photos around. 
What I wonder sometime of Trey is the social side (FB, G+ and now P). I “liked” Tray on FB a long time ago, but sometime it is like a virus with so many photos and links posted, re-posted and posted again. Is it too much? Is there a way to filter only the daily photo and that’s it? Sorry Trey to say that as I know you are putting a lot of effort on the marketing side. However I think that the “too-much” can work against and not in favour. 
About Pinterest, that is another one that make me wonder. Posting link of FB of photo uploaded on Pinterest. That is a bit of spam. Moreover I really thought that on Pinterest you are not supposed to market yourself with your uploaded photos etc, not 50% not 30% and not 10%. If I misunderstand Pinterest, and I do that with my photos and everybody does that with the own work, does not Pinterest become a FB clone, as G+, of course different interface which helps every system to grow. 
But than thinking back to what you say, you get a stunning 15% traffic from Pinterest, I am sure 100% that Pinterest owner is highly happy about having you on board after your results with G+ and FB, so they don’t really care about the 50% or whatever % you actually load, and probably they offered you a different interface to make the upload easier . At the end is traffic they have and they did not have before. I assume the people that come to your site from Pinterest love you photos, so it’s really a no brain exercise, it’s a win win for everybody. There may be a small group of Pinterest fans that don’t like this and they find sponsoring the own work as been not ethical with Pinterest basic rules….but I guess the large numbers are with Trey and Pinterest.

Trey don’t let these hateful comments bother you- a certain percentage of people will always have something nasty to say, even if what YOU are saying is completely logical and sound reasoning.
In regards to this whole bruhaha over marketing yourself – I think that what you are doing is super successful.  When you see a photographer whose work is EVERYWHERE, like yours, you recognize that photographer’s style.  So even if someone doesn’t see an attribution here or there, they may still recognize your work.
Also, with Google reverse image search, it is very easy to find out who actually created an image, and find the creator’s site if you want to contact them about it.  So if an art director saw some image (without attribution) from you- and wanted to use it for a book cover or an ad, they could quickly do a reverse image search and they would instantly find your site and be able to get in touch. 
I think you are right when you talk about “good people”.  Most people are!  Everyone has their bad days (like some of the commenters here), but most people are generally good.  Only a small percentage of people are truly evil and people like that wouldn’t be openly critical of you on your blog.  If they really wanted to do harm they would be much more deceptive about it and slide under your notice.

So thanks for all of the great images that you openly share, the tutorials and the marketing advice!    

Very well said Trey. Pinterest really helps a lot to everyone’s business especially for what you called the free traffic that leads to real revenue.

Actually, Pinterest is effectively “forcing” artists whose work is pinned without their knowledge, to participate in Pinterest.  If people want to provide permission for Pinterest to copy their works, that is one thing (copy, and “exploit”, don’t forget).  We are  talking about works that are copied and being used without their owners’ knowledge.

 Pinterest’s terms of use state that if you upload content to Pinterest, then you’re giving Pinterest permission to distribute, sublicense, and sell that content:By making available any Member Content through the Site, Application or Services, you hereby grant to Cold Brew Labs a worldwide, irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, royalty-free license, with the right to sublicense, to use, copy, adapt, *modify, distribute, license, sell, transfer, publicly display, publicly perform, transmit, stream, broadcast, access, view, and otherwise exploit such Member Content only on, through or by means of the Site, Application or Services.

Not everything is rainbows and unicorns, Callie.  These are adult craftspeople debating important issues related to their livelihood, the future of the medium, and copyright in general.   You’re not Trey’s mommy, and his skin is thick enough to take on legitimate criticism.

Hehe cool – hope you have fun Daniel

I think I see what you are saying — but the point is larger than me.

I’m simply showing the way of the internet – the flow of the future.  Pinterest is HERE.  It is NOW.  It is neither good nor bad – it just is what it is.  You can’t hold back the wind.  Technology and the flow of information always change business.  Yes, ways of copyright work great in a paper-based world of finite goods.  

I’m simply telling you what I have been doing and my attitudes towards sharing.  I could keep all my methods on using the internet a secret, if you prefer.

Can I get an invite Trey, so that I can start asking people to remove my images? Hook a fellow up please.

What yo’re saying is not really intellectually consistent.  No one is saying that commercial use of an image without proper licensing is okay.

Yes – I think I am within the spirit of the site… if you look at what I pin… I think I mostly pin other people’s stuff that I think is interesting…  now, I DO post my own stuff, but that is part of a strategy of making sure the original source of my work points back to here instead of somewhere else.

For example, I’d rather not have people pin my stuff from Flickr… I’d prefer this blog to be the source.

 I love Pinterest and I am a photographer who has some stuff on it http://pinterest.com/sarahwphotograp/

Thank goodness for someone finally saying something sensible about Pinterest. 

To be honest I’m thrilled that most photographers are hiding their pictures away for fear that someone uses them noncomercially without permission. To adapt Tim O’Reilly’s quote “The real problem for most photographers isn’t piracy, but obscurity.” The more photographers that choose to remain in obscurity, wasting their time worrying about stuff like this, the better for the rest of us.

They’re not forcing anyone.  If they images are online, what’s the difference if it’s on their blog, facebook, google+, pinterest etc?  

Why wouldn’t a photographer be HAPPY to have their work spread across the internet and let people gain knowledge of what they do and who they are? 

If you don’t want to see your art work spread across websites, then you shouldn’t be putting it online in the first place.  

Why do you feel this is non-commercial use?  Not only is Pinterest using the infringed works to build its network, which builds its income from things like Skimlinks, and probably, sponsored ads in the future, but many “pinners” are using the works of others to try to build their own businesses.

If you’re happy giving the rights of your works away that is your choice, but calling people “obscure” or “antiquated” for their choice to control their works as they see necessary for their business, is unfair.

Sean – I read your article on Pinterest too so I’ve listened to your side of things but I’m afraid I’m with Trey on this. And “obscure” is not an insult. It just means unknown and, as I said, I have no problem at all with anyone remaining so.

I have been reading this same debate for 10 years between Newspaper cartoonists and Cartoonists who strictly give away their content for free on the web.

Web Cartoonists have learned that by giving away content they generate more viewers and earn money off Merchandising. Newspapers are dying off and those cartoonists are panicking. they accuse the webcartoonists as being guys in their parents basements not earning a dime, when the truth is some of the top cartoonists on the web are earning a substantial sum from merchandise. Book’s, Tshirts, toys games etc. One comic strip was quoted as having earned 500k last year…. not bad for giving content away for free.

Social networks are the way to get your work out to the world. all it takes for someone is to earn from 5% of their fans. and that market could be such a small niche. But you have a the opportunity to grab the attention of a small % out of the entire world. that’s a huge opportunity! you know how many people there are in the world?

If YOU ARE GOOD then no matter what your work is gonna get spread around the web. if you are happy toiling in obscurity because it’s cool to you…. go for it. or….earn a living at it so you can do it all the time.

What it actually says is “However, try not to use Pinterest purely as a tool for self-promotion.” It’s that ‘purely’part that is important.

Trey is an idea’s man, just about everything I’ve ever read about him or by him has confirmed this, he thinks/lives ‘outside the box’ (Need proof, do a search for his post about meeting Hans Zimmer, then objectively get a feel for the ‘tone’ of the post), it goes without saying that people like Trey will cause ripples, and face opposition, how can they not, they are challenging things that are established, it is what it is, Opposition is not a bad thing, it provides a chance for healthy debate.

I love the hope in Trey’s way of doing things, I think he’s spot on when he mentioned a “poisonous fear-of-loss” I believe most of the arguments I have heard have a base in this, in fact I don’t think I’ve really seen a CONVINCING objective argument against it. I have watched countless businesses, industries, and people fade into obscurity because of ‘Gollums Folly Syndrome’  or the failure to move on and adapt, to embrace what’s new and learn how you can use it to your benefit and help others to benefit from it, like Trey said, “it’s happening NOW”, your fears not going to stop that.

As for him becoming arrogant, you really think an arrogant person would leave these up for the world to see??: http://www.stuckincustoms.com/category/travel/malaysia/langkawi/

Just getting started, but here’s me if your interested…
http://pinterest.com/azzaviljoen/

What do you say to someone  like John Chandler’s post who seems to making an honest effort in exploring new avenues?  Maybe Trey is the exception because he was a 1st generation user and he is making money off of people like John who are paying for his knowledge; he obviously is a lucky man. Not everyone can be a celebrity.  They’re is a  lot of hype and deception in the internet world & not everyone is born with a computer in their hand. Not everyone has an endless income stream to throw into the virtual wind without seeing results.  These are strange times and difficult for many.  I for one, am making a honest effort to study communication in the modern age.   We had a thriving business and global forces beyond our control, including how business is done now and the internet, lead to it’s demise.  Don’t be so quick to dismiss antiquated technology.  I have an appreciation for things rare and beautiful.  I love things that you can touch and hold, that create comfort and beauty. I am sadden by ancient knowledge and culture being crowded out by new technology- yet I can still appreciate it.  On the other hand I also appreciate the works of Michelangelo and structures such as the Great  Pyramids and the ruins of Ancient Rome.  Should those give way to Comic Books and Condominiums just because they are contemporary? I would hope there is room for both.  Do not disrespect the legacy of such modern creations.  Besides, if  ”the cloud” ever evaporates due to a new Carrington Event or a Nuclear Bomb your circuitry will be melted and all you will be left with are real photos not your digital files. All of these sites are a work in progress being fueled by the energy of the masses.  Remember Friendster, MySpace?   Groupon should have taken the money and run.  There are no guarantees, my friend.

Head for cover.  Sh*t Storm coming.  DUCK!!  
Copyright issues are still up in the air.  Just keep that in mind when you post/pin.  Think of what you do as public with the thought of selling something ”unique” to a corporate client or individual in the future.  That’s my take.

It’s true.  The Winds of Change are irresistible but, that doesn’t mean you can get hurt badly by the incoming storm. There’s going to be collateral damage and although the technology is helping many, it seems geared more to those who are starting out and have “nothing left to lose” (Yeah, that’s freedom.)  If you have spent a lifetime building a castle, you can bet that you are going to do everything in your power to protect what you have – that is until the castle is destroyed.  That is disruptive creativity in the modern world.  How you feel about it might have something to do with past standards, what they have meant to you (the business culture) and where you lie on the spectrum of change.  There are winners and losers.  Life is sometimes unfair.  It seems a lot to ask, to expect people with mature careers to throw everything out the window and start anew – sometimes without the resources they once had.  I was raised to respect my elders and those that came before me.  Let’s be a little humble if we’re sitting pretty.  Guess what – you may be the next to fall.  Life can be strange. (Not directing this necessarily at you Trey, but some of the people on this comment thread)

“Why wouldn’t a photographer be HAPPY to have their work spread across
the internet and let people gain knowledge of what they do and who they
are? ”

Who are you to assume what any other person’s goals are, either in business or life?

Trey, Pinterest increased traffic to a brand new website for me by 40%.  The website is only two and a half months old, and has a few search terms appearing nice and high on Google searches and Bing, but Pinterest has driven most of my traffic so far.  I realize it’s a bit early in my progress to hail all to Pinterest, but as you say….it is what it is.  It’s totally driving this new beginning for me, and I’m certainly not going to knock it…

 Reading comprehension. I’m amazed at all the people who reply to something that was not said. I have no problem with people not liking something I said. I have a Big Problem with people who don’t like What I DIDN’T SAY. Reading comprehension is very important folks.

I can’t help but point out that your examples do not further your point. We can appreciate ruins of Ancient Rome (sic), like we might appreciate the mechanical beauty of an old-fashioned plate camera on display. We don’t, however, continue building our structures out of stone and marble and we don’t continue to shoot pictures using plate cameras.

Also, I don’t see many people here (least of all Trey) dismissing antiquated technology. He is, to some degree, dismissing antiquated ways of thinking as being, well, antiquated. There’s a new way to do things. You don’t have to like it, and you don’t have to participate in it, but people want Pintrest, so Pintrest exists. The point I see Trey making is that as long as this is true why not involve yourself in it and reap the rewards, rather than stay away out of fear?

Thank you Michael…. I’m not really “blasting” ALL old-school photographers… hehe and you don’t sound like one of them.  I’m mostly talking about all the bitter-old-creepy-uncles that are more negative than positive about digital/web changes

John – thanks so much for the nice message – I am sorry things aren’t working out for you… but at least keep up the photography for the pure joy out of it…  don’t fret about the money, if possible.  Like Money said while painting with arthritis in old-age — the pain will go away, but the beauty remains.

I also think the web has forced professionals to further differentiate themselves since the quality of work people can find has gone up too. 

 I agree with you.  Sure you can be upset with pinterest, you can try to wish it away, try to fight its existence.  But I think that trying to see if you can make it work for you might be the best overall action.  I dont know if pinterest will remain, heck something better or worse than it might take its place.  But i think things like pinterest are here to stay for sure.
http://pinterest.com/ayafai/

I wrote a comment, but I don’t know if it ended up getting posted.  I’m both excited and nervous about Pinterest.  I think most new technology is that way.  I don’t really know what I see my interaction with it is.  I’m nervous about if i pin things giving up copyright, or having to eventually “compete” with pins of my work from other people.  If all pins drove traffic to the artists work then it would be great, i mean then the artist would receive compensation and credit but a lot of the things drive to tumblr blogs and google image searches, etc.  I also worry what companies like pinterest will treat the images and ownership in the future when they mature more, or if they are hurting financially and need to find other revenues…

But then I also think you know if people didn’t share their work, I wouldn’t have anything to compare myself against.  I would have photos to inspire myself with.  I am not a great photographer, although I do take great value in my photography.  And I do have a hard time giving up my work but at the same time I want it to be seen and I truly believe my best is yet to come.

With any technology you have options on how you handle things.  You can ignore it (hope it goes away), fear it (complain, litigate, run, whatever), or embrace it (jump headfirst, try to use it in a way that works for you, etc).  I think I fear it slightly but want to embrace it more.  I know I cannot nor do i have the time, energy, or desire to try to fight it.  Maybe pinterest will go away, but the concepts behind it i think will remain.  I would rather try to engage the system and hope to dictate better how my work is shared. 

The people who wish for the old ways of doing things are fooling themselves I believe.  People feared tapes, VCRs, DVRs, etc…but they are still here.  I feel you are best served with understanding and figuring out how to obtain value with the technology.

Jeremy, the ASMP has an excellent tutorial on copyright here: http://asmp.org/content/registration-counts . With their new pilot program you can register up to 750 photos taken in a single calendar year in one batch for $35. Note this applies only to the USA.

I’ve managed to created a profile on Pinterest a couple of weeks ago and I have to admit that is the best photo-sharing website on the internet. Why I’m saying this? mainly because its very easy to use and its very easy to share.

I’ve pinned a couple of my photos… so if somebody would like to check them out, here is the link to my profile: https://pinterest.com/mrshadow05/

You wouldn’t believe the backlash I’ve been getting when trying to explain to photographers that if they try to stop epeople pinning their work then those same people will just download it and re-upload to Pinterest with no link to the source.

All my ‘work’ is creative commons and although I haven’t made much  from photography the two magazine articles I’ve been paid for have been interviews around work that was found through a creative commons search. It’s possible the same will happen when people see my stuff that has been pinned to my pinterest page.

(no pinterest link as my comment isn’t here just to pimp my pins!)

Love Pinterest, love photography, am happy to share my own. Without it I wouldn’t have found you now would I?
If it’s good enough for Zen Habits to share it’s okay with me.
PS if I pin something I like I don’t spend time checking the site to see what kind of copyright there is on the image, I just press “PIN” hate to burst your bubbles. I only pin images I totally love and want to share, if something came up that stopped me pinning I would respect that and move on.
ciao lisa
 

I don’t have the time to look through 222 comments to see if this has already been discussed, but answer me this.

You say you’re happy to have your work shared.

Would you be happy for me to host it on my blog, without any attribution or acknowledgement that it was your work, and stick it on Pinterest?

How about if I then sold copies of your work. Or gained significant advertising revenue from the site visits I got via Pinterest.

You’d be happy with that I presume?

Worth noting:

If you issue a DMCA takedown notice directly to Pinterest, they will remove the infringing “pin”, but do not remove the image from their servers.

Which is rather naughty.

Thank you for this great information. I just got set up on pinterest recently, but I’ve been conflicted about the copyright issues. I really like your attitude about the issue and I like what you are saying. Thanks again!

Trey – How does a Pinterest user legally get around this point while sharing other peoples work?:

“Federal copyright laws give the author of any copyrighted work (which includes photographs and copyright attaches automatically as soon as the work is created) the sole and exclusive right to publish and reproduce such work.  So, basically, when you see a photograph that you love, you do not have any right to publish or reproduce that photograph unless you took the photo or got consent from the photographer to use the photo.”

As I understand it, the posting of one’s own images is frowned upon by some, but posting (pinning) other’s images is publishing their images. I would imagine most of theses images are published WITHOUT explicit permission. Even if YOU feel it’s ok to publish other’s work (a violation of copyright law), isn’t it really up to the individual creators?”

In several places in Pinterest’s Terms of Use, you, as the user, agree that you will not violate copyright law or any other laws.  And then there is this: “YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT, TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, THE ENTIRE RISK ARISING OUT OF YOUR ACCESS TO AND USE OF THE SITE, APPLICATION, SERVICES AND SITE CONTENT REMAINS WITH YOU.”  (yes, this is in ALL CAPS right in their TOU for a reason).
 
And then, there is this:
“you agree to defend, indemnify, and hold Cold Brew Labs, its officers, directors, employees and agents, harmless from and against any claims, liabilities, damages, losses, and expenses, including, without limitation, reasonable legal and accounting fees, arising out of or in any way connected with (i) your access to or use of the Site, Application, Services or Site Content, (ii) your Member Content, or (iii) your violation of these Terms.”
 
This “defend and indemnify” stuff means that if some photographer out there decides that he or she does not want you using that photogs images as “inspiration” or otherwise and decides to sue you and Pinterest over your use of that photog’s images, you will have to hire a lawyer for yourself and YOU will have to hire a lawyer for Pinterest and fund the costs of defending both of you in court.  Not only that, but if a court finds that you have, in fact, violated copyright laws, you will pay all damages assessed against you and all damages assessed against Pinterest.  OUCH.  Oh, but it gets better.   Pinterest reserves the right to prosecute you for violations. Basically, Pinterest has its keester covered and have shifted all of the risk to you.   Smart of them, actually since the courts are still deciding whether the site owner or the user should be ultimately responsible.  Rather than wait for the decision, they have contractually made you the responsible one.  And you agreed.  (And by “you” I clearly mean “we”).”

http://ddkportraits.com/2012/02/why-i-tearfully-deleted-my-pinterest-inspiration-boards/

If indeed there were links back to the source of the image, all fine and well. The problem that I’m seeing is that things get re-pinned and re-blogged so often that there is no link back to the original source. There are also disquieting legal considerations. See this post: http://ddkportraits.com/2012/02/why-i-tearfully-deleted-my-pinterest-inspiration-boards

Trey, actually, it is not about you or the internet, it is about me and other Industry Professionals that have a tested and proven methodology of working as Professional Photographers or Creatives that have the need and the desire to stop PRIVATELY OWNED PROFIT MAKING companies making money from our works.If someone ‘pins’ my work to Pininterest, Pininterest can SELL MY WORK – that is ILLEGAL and recent articles are now coming to the fore raising serious concerns about the Legality of their website and terms….. If I post a link to a film on my website, it is illegal, it is not mine and I cannot claim the rights to sell it –  and I am quietly confident that the owners of the film and their legal team will be popping a summons into the mail asking me not only to remove it but also asking for large sums of money from my Bank Account.Yes, Industries have changed, however, that does NOT give anyone the right to demand that I give up MY RIGHTS just so they can practice a version to suit them and their way of doing business.

If we had n0t protected our rights as Professional Creatives, then there would not be an Industry today, nothing would be created as no one could earn a living from it – this would then apply to patents, etc and the whole sheebang would grind to a halt.

If copyright did not exist, then it is likely half the technology we enjoy today would never have been created in the first place and since WWII actually, nothing has been invented that actually BENEFITS mankind, just loads of stuff that is claimed to make our lives ‘easier’, when in fact, it creates more issues than we know how to deal with them.Change is good, I would agree with that every day of the week, however, you cannot have change for changes sake, there needs to be a justified purpose for the change and devaluing creatives works is not beneficial, it is detrimental.

…. and getty still lose millions every year, why, because they devalued photography and sell stock images for a pittance of what they used to be worth.

Every Tom Dick and Harry with a Camera is likely to have a website www(name)photography.ext, a FlikR account and supplies crappy boring stock images to Getty et al.

Owning a Camera, a Facebook Page and a Twitter page gives me reason to believe you are NOT a true Professional Photographer earning a full time living to pay your mortgage, pay tax, own PL Insurance etc etc etc…. have you tried the FB Group ‘No, you are not a photographer, you just own a camera’

Ha! I think I get what your game is now… write photo-related, controversial hot button pushing articles to drive more traffic. Smart.

I think your new school could use some lessons from old school though. You purport picture views as if that were a form of currency. However, with stronger copyright laws, and successful rights management, photographers were more successful financially. Like many today, it seems the lull of attention trumps all. 

 I am a follower for your talent, your business ethics and today for your leadership in progressive thought. Thank you, Trey.
Keep up the good work and keep your mouth open!

so, I’ve been reading through these comments, and i have been noticing a common theme to a lot of posts regarding Trey. People seem to think his views on copyright, the ability to sue if used improperly, and his open approach, contradict each other    People seem to not understand that his work IS Copyrighted, while it may not be in the same way a majority of people copyright their stuff, it is copyrighted. 
Creative commons non commercial is a copyright, and it is breaking copyright law if you don’t link back to the original photo, and it does give him the right to Sue a company that decides to use his photo commercially. No, he would not be able to sue Pinterest, because he did clearly, and KNOWINGLY give up that right as soon as he signed up, and I’m positive that he realizes that, and I am also sure that he isn’t worried about ever needing to sue pinterest. 

Open source programmers have fully embraced this method of sharing their work since the beginning, you are free to use, change and share their software, but you can not sell it, or claim it as your own. If you do, there are measures put in place for the creators to take legal action, it is no different than what Trey is embracing by using creative commons. 

While pinterest can legally use photos people posted on their site for their own gain (I.E. selling them and such) i think the creators realize that doing something of the sort would destroy them as a company, people would stop using them. In them realizing that, the likely hood of them actually doing is low, there is a chance, but i don’t think they would risk it. 

For anybody that doesn’t really understand what creative commons-Noncommercial means, go to their site and read up on it before, saying Trey is being hypocritical. (i didn’t see that phrase exactly, but that is essentially what you are implying) http://www.creativecommons.org/About

I have a lot of respect for you Trey, you are one of the few people that is willing to share your views, and that isn’t willing to CHANGE your view, just because other people do not agree with it, and seem to get quite angry because you won’t change your view.  Keep up the great work, you inspire many people (including myself) not only with your art, but also with your personality. 

and, if anybody would like to invite me to pinterest, i would greatly accept your invitation plunkett.brandon.j@gmail.com

I have been a follower of your work for sometime and like what you do, however, the comments and bashing about “old school photographers” you have made are insulting and disrespectful. Let me remind you that you have a job today because of the “old school photographers.” They were kind enough to pave the path for you so you can do what you do today. Be more grateful for the “old school photographer” and learn something from them. Interesting thing, one day you too will be an “old school photographer.”

You obviously read into the article what you wanted to read into it. If you read it, all the questions you pose would be answered.

I am a record producer / songwriter and my industry has suffered tremendously under the enforcement o the “old / traditional” model of doing business. We have learned every lesson the hard way unfortunately and hopefully it will serve the photographic industry to help you avoid making the same mistakes. We used to pay $1,000,000.’s for the kind of advertising that open sharing provides – now it is virtually free. How hard is that to understand? And yes, in addition to pop records, national commercials and network television, I have worked with Hans Zimmer and was a part of his complex in Santa Monica for several years. BRAVO TREY RATCLIF for helping to pave a course into our digital future!!

He will only be an old school photographer if he fails to adapt. Simply being old doesn’t make one old school.

Follow me   
http://pinterest.com/davidclarkphoto/

Trey, I think you’re really misinformed about Pinterest. Every time you upload one of your photos there, you’re giving them irrevocable, for-ever, complete rights over your work. They can do whatever they want with it, even sell it and earn lots of money with your work. You better read carefully their licensing terms. One thing is sharing, other thing is feeding the vultures.

大変興味深く読ませて頂きました。自身の頭の中で明確ではないことが
ぼんやりと浮かんではいましたが、一つの答えが見えたきがします。
個々の人々が有意義に過ごせる少しでものお手伝いができればいいなぁと
いままで考えながら特に未来の子供たちへ少しの貢献があればとも
かんがえています。特に自分の子供にしてあげられなかった後悔とともに。

Trey…I got involved with Pinterest because of you and you work.

Wow, not getting anything done. Taking this part of my life and dedicating to your YouTube presentations. Right now doing the Variety Hour #27

I know I’m behind the times reading these comments, but wanted to say about this:
“if they try to stop epeople pinning their work then those same people will just download it and re-upload to Pinterest with no link to the source.”
Yes!  That.  Whether it is right or wrong, that is exactly what people are going to do. This morning I found an image I liked, but it wouldn’t allow me to pin it. So I posted it to my tumblr (which it WOULD allow) and then pinned it from there. Now I still linked to the source material (if you click through far enough) but there are ways around sites that don’t want you to pin them…

Amber – you think I have an ego because I don’t follow people back?  You want me to follow back 1.8 million people?  That makes no sense.   And how can you say I am not about giving and sharing?  I give 365 hi-res photos per year, countless tutorials, videos, and tips — all of it free.

I am going to jump in here.  Wow!  I found this post via another post about Pinterest (the other side of this issue).  I have had so many photos stolen from my website (it was dedicated to all things rodeo).  I spent a lot of time finding these photos on the internet and it really sucked because of the fact that people were not crediting my work back to me.  I worked hard to get that image.  I have a lot of photographs of cowboys.  I have found them on all kinds of websites.  I recently found two of my images on Deviant Art.  The person actually copyrighted them as her own and is selling them.  That was tough to handle.  I have a friend who understands copyright law and is helping me sort through this nightmare.  

I can see your point, but for the little artists like me, who don’t have a team of people and a business dedicated to marketing their work, their art is all they have. And when it gets stolen, well, it’s gone.  On one hand, you have to use the internet to get traffic and all that.  I wouldn’t even know what to do if I didn’t have a friend who understood the legal stuff.  I created a Pinterest account to reclaim my photos. Big mistake.  I thought it would help me sell some of my photos at my Artflakes online print on demand gallery.  I have had no positive impact on having my photos “appreciated” on the internet.  It makes me want to take all my photos off the internet.  But I created a website (with rodeo and cowboy photos) in the hopes of creating a name for myself as creative, artistic photography.  Instead, I had to take the website down because of the photo piracy.  I uploaded high resolution photos.  Nobody asked permission to use my photos and nobody linked back.  Well, some actually did on Pinterest, but ended up linking back to a site I had to take down.  It is nice to know other photographers are fighting for some regulation — otherwise, it is just people claiming art is the fact they like it.  I can appreciate someone loving people’s art, but the relationship between art and art lover has gotten out of control.  It’s like saying a Picasso painting is amazing and hanging it in your house, but having no idea who the artist is.  That is where the true relationship of art comes from — the artist and the art appreciator.  We live in a shallow feed me what I want now society.  It’s just out of control and I am too old school to figure all this technical stuff out.  I could go on and on, but I have to figure out if I am going to completely delete my Pinterest account in fear of doing to another photographer that has been done to me.  Too often, beautiful photos get credited to google.com. That’s like saying a Monet painting was not a Monet!  And let’s face it — photographers’ art is fueling the frenzy on the internet.The other side of all this (for me as a right brain person, who really is trying to figure out the left brain stuff) is I can take all my photos off the internet and not share them.  Then I would be all alone with my art. Back to the relationship of the artist, art, and art appreciator — art needs someone to look at it, or does it? 

With any new (information) age, there is a paradigm shift in reality, which changes the mechanisms controlling how things works.  Just as many people remained agrarian, during the industrial revolution , you can remain “industrial” while the rest of the world goes “viral”.  Yes, it is be painful to adjust to change but it can be more painful not to.  You can choose to align your business interests with the new paradigm or you can try to force the world to (cling to) exist within an old (reality) paradigm.  Amber, you mentioned ego but I feel that most of your inner turmoil (conflict) is about you wanting the world to exist within a dieing paradigm bubble.  In one generation, your mentality will be extinct.  Like it or not, Trey did not create this reality, but he is adjusting his outlook so that he my co-exist (or thrive) within it.  That’s not ego…it’s called evolution.   Don’t be bitter.

hi trey, i do have a question: if you are licensed with a creative commons noncommercial, i’m not sure what you mean by licensing images to the copyright so that commercial use without permission can be sued. could you please specify? thanks!

have the t&c’s changed…
going through pinterest, i see nothing about them being able to sell any graphic content thats uploaded there

Hi Trey,

What are your views on using your CC images as placeholders in say, commercial website templates. As in, if a template is being sold, your images are just there on the demo page for visitors to get a nice feel of the template. Your pictures aren’t actually being sold. And in every case, the buyer of the template will want to put in his own images. Basically your images are used to make the wordpress/joomla template look good when its being sold. Does this constitute as using your images commercially?

What if you were attributed very clearly, with a link back to your site/blog/google+ page? I asked you a similar question on G+. I guess this blog post if the best place to ask it.

Even if the images aren’t being sold, if they’re being used for business purposes, they’re involved in a revenue exchange, so it would be commercial use. Generally we allow a designer to do this on a private password-protected site for a specific client, if they’re in the process of pitching Trey’s images being used on the site. However, just using them generally to attract clients needs a paid license, as the images are being used to generate revenue for the designer, even if they don’t generate it every time. There’s obviously a compelling reason to use Trey’s images instead of low-quality royalty-free stock images … they’ll sell more design jobs! So we ask for a fee in exchange for that.

If you have any more questions or want to discuss some rates, drop me a line at licensing@stuckincustoms.com.

Well, I am not an expert photographer, so maybe my views on the matter don’t matter. But I do take a lot of photographs, and although some are “licensed” by creative commons, and some are in the public domain, I take pictures because that’s what I love doing. It’s a hobby of mine. I, in no way, will ever hunt people down or nag at people who use my photographs without my permission (unless, of course, they were of me). But since I don’t make money from my photography, my opinion may be moot.

I believe that pictures of someone’s house, or pictures of nature, or pictures of a rock, etc, really does not belong to anyone. And people should be able to use them any way they darn well please. It is different if it is a picture of something you made, or art that you yourself painted/drew/crafted.

But I get shocked when people are upset when their artwork or photographs is used without permission, and they don’t sell their artwork, or do anything at all with it besides post it. I can understand if their artwork is stolen and sold, but not if it is used on a blog.

It’s all just so confusing, especially to me, because I am a writer and have to dig deep to find usable photo’s for my books that are either in the public domain, or able to be used commercially.

It’s tiresome.

Tested and proven methodologies have a habit of being steamrolled by new technologies…. How’s the buggy whip business doing lately? How many huge brands have fallen by the wayside because they failed to adapt?

A business that continues to thrive is one that can recognize the winds of change and adjust their sails accordingly, not the businesses that dig in their heels and try to shoehorn new tech into the existing model. It’s the ones who examine the model and ask, what do we need to change about the tested and proven methodology in light of this new force.

While certain studios can continue to operate as boutique shops offering portraits and wedding coverage, stock photography has already been fundamentally changed in the last decade. Trey’s model won’t work for all genres equally, but every genre MUST reevaluate the way they do business in light of new technologies or watch as the world passes them by.

Fascinating but frightening idea. But I’m seeing examples of this actually working more and more across the internet. Give away your best stuff–in specific contexts–and the people who want to buy will come buy. But that big What If–what if they steal my stuff and nobody buys anything–is terrifying. It’s a fear I must overcome: I agree with Trey that sharing is profitable.

Pinterest can SELL others’ work? I don’t know if I read that in their terms. Using it for their own advertising, I could see, but I don’t think Pinterest can legally sell others’ photos and art. If they can, that’s news to me, and directly violates copyright law. I would like to know either way, as I am considering joining, but am hesitant now.

You’re so right, Lisa. It is very disheartening and frustrating, considering the amount of time put into our work.

I don’t think this is correct: “Open source programmers have fully embraced this method of sharing their work since the beginning, you are free to use, change and share their software, but you can not sell it, or claim it as your own.”.
Namely, the ‘sell’ bit. Open source licenses (as listed by OSI) allow you to sell the software. The “non-discrimination against fields of endeavour”, from Open Source Definition, comes into play here. That it’s not going to happen in practice, it’s obvious, since users can get it for free anytime. So they’re not going to buy from you, unless you do add value, other than the software as it originally is.
On this particular bit, other fields, such as photography, and generally creative content, are different than software. Commercial vs non-commercial use matters, it’s codified in CC licenses, and it’s entirely normal and fair to be so.

I’ve had this bookmarked for months to watch your Google speech. I finally got to it today. I was feeling down and looking for a distraction. What you said about looking outside of “your bubble” was exactly what I needed to hear. I agree with everything you said, just needed a little reminder/motivation.Thanks!

I’d be interested in reading this report – I see a lot of “statistics” like this thrown around, but I wonder if you included correctly-attributed CC photos that number might be much, much lower.

I found you through Pinterest and all I can say is a big THANK YOU. Some of us can physically travel, but most of us in this world virtually travel because we either can’t afford to, afraid to fly, or any numerous of personal reasons. I’m an Indie writer of Interracial romances and your pictures inspire me. I sit and stare at your photograph on Pinterest and I imagine lovers meeting in such a place and a story blossoms. Now, in my idea life I would be able to hop a flight to the pictured destination and use all my senses other than visual. However in reality, my finances and health reason do not make being adventurous an option for me.
You, Mr. Ratcliff, through your craft, have allowed me to mentally venture out vicariously using your body and eyes I am right there in whatever photograph that catches my attention. I thank you for giving us descriptions of the location because it allows me to surf the internet and gain more geological information that I could use to set up scenes and background for my stories. I have a great love for Japan and manage to implement it so well in my stories people assume I have actually been there, when in fact, it is on my bucket list.
You putting your work out here for the world to experience is the same way I feel about my books. A reader will tell me they saw my book on some random site free for download. Well, that doesn’t bother me, because most of the time I gain new readers who don’t have access to all of my books for free, or they realize if they want to keep me writing, they have to buy it so I can maintain a living and do so.
I built my fan base on free reads that I later turned into selling books. If the story is good, people will buy it to keep it and treasure it, or better they will tell others and with my not being able to afford advertising, word of mouth and giving it away to those who can’t afford and ebook pays off. You never know who you are impacting with your craft and for the most part I have found the majority genuinely wanting to be supportive either through loyal postings about me on their blogs, and social networking, or though making sure they buy every book I put out even if it’s not in a genre they are use to reading. Sorry about being so longwinded, but I had to let you know how appreciative I am as a fan of yours. Thank you again.